StyLitch Chats With Creatives
Hi I'm Charlotte, owner of StyLitch. On my podcast I will be joined by creatives from various sides of the creative industry, to chat about how they got into their jobs, what hilarious encounters they've had, and what makes them tick. Instagram @stylitch_chatswithcreatives
StyLitch Chats With Creatives
S8, Ep 4: Marcus Brooks, Videographer and Editor
Every creative career has humble beginnings. For videographer Marcus Brooks, it was a Sony Ericsson flip phone with a basic video editor that sparked a lifelong passion. That early fascination with piecing together clips evolved through experimental YouTube videos, technical education, and eventually, full-time freelance work filming everything from charity events to feature documentaries.
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Instagram: @marcusbrooksfilms
Portfolio: www.mbrooksfilms.com
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Instagram: @stylitch_chatswithcreatives / @stylitch
Hello and welcome to Stylish Chats for Creatives. Today on the podcast, I'm chatting to Marcus Brooks. He's from Manchester and he's a freelance videographer and editor and we actually met on the Freelancer Tea Room. I feel like this is a common theme at the moment. On the podcast, I'm chatting to lots of people who are on there. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks, yeah, cheers for having me. This is cool, looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Yay, tell me how you got into filmmaking. At where? Where does your journey start? Is it from when you're tiny? When you're a bit older?
Speaker 2:yeah, so what it was? Um, when I, so, when I was about, oh, I don't know what age would I have been, from year six going into year seven. Um, what is that like 12, 30, 30?
Speaker 2:oh, no, no, I think is it aged like 11 and 12 around that time. It was around 2006 and my mum bought me a phone because I needed to have that level of independence I'm going home on my own and all that kind of thing. And it was a sony erickson, it was one of the walkman ones and it had a video editor on it. Now, you could only you could only put five clips, and a clip could be a picture, it could be a video clip, it could be text, and you could put up to five of these together. You could cut them together and put them in like an order, um, and then put some like background music on it if you want.
Speaker 2:And this is on like a little, a little flip phone phone. It's unbelievable and I just thought it was really cool and unfortunately I don't have any of the. You know, actually I'm going to say fortunately, I don't have any of the videos, um, on there. I mean, I remember I've got vague memories. This is right, this is the beginning of my career. I've never actually thought about it until just now, um, but I just thought it was really cool that you could film something and stick it together and remix it and move it around and do so, yeah, that's, that's it. And and when was that? I mean, I'm talking 20 years ago, you know nearly so that's a bit crazy isn't it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that I guess that's where it started, and then, from that, youtube was in its infancy. At that time, in fact, I was actually using google video and occasionally I would go on google video no one knows what that is, show my age and, uh, I would click on a video and it would redirect to youtube, because it was google were currently buying youtube and I was what's this youtube thing? I don't, I don't know what this is, um, you know, but eventually you get used to it and I realized, okay, now this is the way it's going. So I got a channel and started making these little.
Speaker 2:There was a piece of software called, uh, pivot stick figure and, yeah, that, I don't know how I got to know that, but I was making these little kind of animated stick figure cartoons of, like, you know, fight scenes, kind of anime inspired that you know, kind of energy balls flying around the place, you know. So, yeah, that, uh, fight scenes, kind of anime inspired that you know, kind of energy balls flying around the place, you know. So, yeah, that, uh, that's kind of where it started. Um, you're doing video editing using windows movie maker and then eventually Sony Vegas and then eventually Premiere Pro and eventually actually, um, getting paid to do it. So, yeah, that's that's kind of long story short, that's me, that's that's what do.
Speaker 1:That's so fun that you started YouTube at such a young age as well. Me and my husband we watched a lot of YouTube and we Nathan especially has watched a YouTuber oh my God, what's his name now and he's just like he eats crazy stuff and he hasn't changed his format or anything for like 15 years and he's still getting like yeah.
Speaker 1:And he's still getting like, yeah, and he's still getting millions of views and stuff. And nath is like this is the pinnacle, he's not advertising anything. He's not, you know, because youtube has a lot of adverts and stuff in it now, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:oh well, it's a business and it's a career now, but yeah, yeah, it's lost, like back at its roots.
Speaker 2:I think that's what you're talking about. I remember watching colin furze, who's he's a big youtuber now. I remember watching him back in 2006 and he'd get like a, like a, like a caravan, like a like that you would tow and he would turn it into like a fast food truck. But, like on the road, no, people love colin furze everyone, like you know, millions of people watch him, but not a lot of people know about his origins and it was just him and his mates with the camcorder doing daft stuff, you know, serving, serving a plate of beans and an egg, you know, out the back of a caravan to people who were driving past in their cars and just putting it through the windscreen, like, honestly, it's crazy. Um, but that's what I think youtube should be. But it, you know, it's become more of a career. There's adverts and all that.
Speaker 2:I'm not a youtuber. I dabbled in it and it was just a way for me to kind of edit and publish stuff. Yeah, you know, a handful of videos got like a million plus views there, but nothing that I would like to link to on this podcast because I feel like I've kind of grown up away from that, um. So yeah, I freelance, I make videos. Uh, it can be for anything a lot of events and conferences, weddings, currently working on a charity cycling film, which is really cool, and I'm happy to talk about that later. And me and a friend of mine also co-directed and co-produced a feature length documentary which was really nice a couple of years ago, went to a few, like you know, film festivals and things. So so, yeah, you know, know, I just kind of I'm lucky that I found a way to do it as a full-time freelance thing. Where it's gonna go, I don't know, but uh, at the moment I'm, I am enjoying it, it's, it's good, you know, I'm making it work.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I feel like welcome to the freelance world. I feel like we all just are making it work and then all of a sudden, you've been doing it for over a decade and you're like what the hell? Yeah, so did you go to university as well?
Speaker 2:um, I did, yeah. So, to be honest, the value of university. It was a really good course. I went to the university of. At the time they did a course called sound and video technology, which is kind of like broadcast engineering that's how I see it very technical OBs getting in a van and having like a like a gallery a gallery in the sense of like loads of screens and vision, mixers and buttons and switches and you've got like a live news program or maybe some kind of sporting event. You know it was all around how that works and how the technology works.
Speaker 2:And I really chose that course because I wanted to supplement the creative side of filmmaking. I don't know what it is. I've always really fancied myself as a filmmaker, but I wanted to have the technical understanding because I knew that, practically speaking, if you want to, you know you need to be able to be a gaffer and a sound engineer. You need to know how these things work above just writing a nice script and you know making a nice video. But obviously um, well, not obviously, but I'm not. I've never really done too much in terms of writing. I actually quite enjoy the technical side of it, the color grading and all the rest of it. So I've really grown away from the early days of what I used to do, you know playing around with my mates and making little videos around, like I don't know, in the school playground and going from animation and then obviously using a camera, and you know documenting life as it happens and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, what is your favorite? You said that you kind of do a bit of sports um videography, a bit of wedding. What's your favorite thing to kind of hone in on so?
Speaker 2:I think, the most wholesome thing. Well, there's two things I um so we've just been through January, um, and I'll be honest, it was quite a quiet month, but I kept it busy by doing a few things like updating my show reel, but also working on charity film. So charity is I'll name drop them, because they're wonderful at what they do. It's Cyclists Fighting Cancer and they're a charity that gives brand new bikes to children and young people living with cancer. These bikes could potentially be modified in certain ways to allow the kids to be able to get on them easily or to pedal them better, and you know things like that, but this is a charity, that's. It's a very small charity. They don't have the funds to pay for video production, so, and I really like what they do, so I kind of help out me and a friend sometimes we go down, we film bike deliveries at people's houses and events that they do, and it's really wholesome stuff because I feel like I'm keeping myself busy, I'm refining my craft and getting better at what I do, but I'm also giving back. I can't always afford to donate to these things, but if I can contribute something of some other value, then that's really good.
Speaker 2:Another thing that I do is sometimes there's a company I work for and we often work with kids and they have this particular company. It has a youtube channel where they have these little uh I say how old, kind of like year six to year 11 kind of deal. You know that kind of age range like I guess, uh, between 11 and 16, and they're like reporters and they'll go to like some kind of activity center or a theme park or whatever and I'll film them being reporters and interviewing the public on how they're enjoying it, is it worth coming, do they recommend it for their families? It's just really nice stuff, but obviously that stuff is paid, so maybe less. You know, the charity stuff I do for free and, yeah, I don't know, that's the most enjoyable, I think, because it feels like I'm doing more than just a job. You know, I'm actually giving something else, which is really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think when you I don't think charities always want your money. Obviously the money's great, but sometimes if you've got a specific skill and you've got the time to give, sometimes that's more valuable to them because actually, like your films, they might be able to then pitch out to donors, you know, and it's kind of a song, yeah, no, in that kind of way uh, the most recent example is there, um, this charity.
Speaker 2:They're looking at bringing on a, a new business kind of charitable partner, a company that can do regular sponsored rides and encourage their. You know, because cycling is good for lots of reasons, um, it's good for mental health, it's good fitness for the kids who are suffering with cancer or living with cancer. It's a way to get there. There's a lot of development stages and milestones in a child's development that the bike can be a vehicle and a tool for. Um, it allows them to be social, get out, get some fresh air, be kids again, you know, um, but also for companies, it's a really good scheme, like, like, like. It makes you look good as a company if you encourage your colleagues and your team to do fundraising and especially if it's active. So, so, yeah, so the film I'm currently working on is going to be used to pitch, you know, the charity to be a charitable partner for, for companies. So so yeah, literally, as you say, just like that. It's so.
Speaker 1:So yeah, literally, as you say, just like that it's so nice, like it's so nice that you can use your skills like that. I think it's like it's really wholesome and actually I think you probably get a lot more out of it yourself as well, because, like you say, you're still honing your skills. It's not like you're. You're like oh, I'm amazing, and like flicking your hair and being like oh yeah, no, not at all, you know like I say, it's been a very quiet month.
Speaker 2:And freelance the world of freelance I do it full-time, it's up and down with your schedule and I did have actually work booked in for January that got cancelled due to budget and that. That just happens and you have to roll with the punches, um, but to be able to keep yourself busy in between those times and give back is is really important and plus, yeah, like I say, there's a value add to it, which you know. When I'm filming this kind of stuff and when I'm working on it and when I'm focused on, you know, is my shot in focus? Does it look good? Is the composition good? I briefly forget about financial worries, or there's no work coming in three months time, or I can't afford this lens that I need, or whatever it might be. You kind of forget those things and you focus on what really matters, which is, in the moment, the value you're bringing to people that need it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I think you're so right as well with freelancing. It's a roller coaster, isn't it?
Speaker 2:absolutely I. I only started freelancing full-time a couple of years ago. Prior to that I was kind of working. Well, I was working full-time at a tech company. That was my first job out of uni and it was really good because I had my foot in the door before I graduated. I knew some of the people that worked there and they needed my skills. They needed someone to kind of bring video into the company to do marketing and that kind of thing. And it was a high pressure environment because money was tight, because the company was pre-revenue and it was, yeah, that you had to just figure it out. But you had a lot of creative freedom because it hadn't been done before at this company. I was like establishing video, which was which was pretty cool, you know, to be given that responsibility.
Speaker 2:But yeah, after after seven years, I decided, you know, I need to. I had that burning itch to go freelance, because you learn a lot of residual skills, you grow really fast and you know just the virtue of like having 30 jobs in a year rather than just one or two. So what I did was I reduced my hours at that company. I started doing part-time work for a year or two just to kind of give myself time to establish a bit of a client base and get a name for myself without, you know, jeopardizing my bills and, you know, my food, which is quite important. It gave me some regular income but I had to work because it wasn't enough to survive. It was just enough to kind of keep a baseline. So, yeah, yeah, two years, and I think what you said earlier, have you been financing for about 10 years, did you say?
Speaker 1:If not more. I've kind of lost count.
Speaker 2:It's fast approaching. For me, it feels like I started this journey yesterday and I'm learning all the time. And we met on a, on what was it? The room, it's like basically like a discord group, and that that's a really good resource, especially when, as I said to you before, as a freelancer, you're in your own head and you kind of get a bit stuck and thinking that, oh, you know, woe is me, like everything's terrible and I don't know what I'm doing and the whole imposter syndrome comes. But yeah, I think, uh, yeah, just being able to connect with other people wherever you can networking or otherwise, virtual or in person really helps.
Speaker 1:I think it's massive and actually like I'm lucky because I work in studios 90% of the time. It's rare that I kind of have a day prop shopping from home and I think, without actually being in, like when I have quiet months, I try and ram loads of podcast interviews in or I try and go meet people for coffee because otherwise I'm going on myself and I think, oh my God, was I just an asshole the last time I was in studios? Or like, was this the imposter talking? Because I wouldn't be doing it for this long if I wasn't all right at my job. And I think that imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1:It's so hard to shut it up sometimes, and especially if you're quiet January and February, notorious for being quiet. December you only work two weeks of the month because everyone buggers off halfway through and then doesn't come back till the 6th of January or whatever. So it's difficult to try and fill that time, sometimes not being productive but doing something creative that you haven't had time to do, because you're trying to run your business, do your accounts, find the work, do the work, edit the work, everything else. You know you're wearing 20 hats. So, yeah, it can be a lonely place, but I think the more things like the Freelance Tea Room come up, the more that people connect via things like the podcast. There is a whole community of us out there and there's lots of network events. But also, I know they're not everybody's cup of tea, so it's, you know, not everybody wants to do that kind of thing. Maybe they'd like to meet up in a smaller group or, you know, just go for a coffee, one-on-one or whatever, but it's.
Speaker 1:You're definitely not alone in feeling that January is quiet. February can be quiet. I mean, I've had years where my August has been quiet and I'm like um, what the hell? August is supposed to be busy, what's going on? It's just there's no tellings. And you're so right as well with budget. Often I find that companies kind of spend their budget and it comes to january, february, march and then they go shit, we've got no budget for that until april, until their finances kick up again yeah and then everyone.
Speaker 1:They're scrambling around for people because everyone's booked on stuff.
Speaker 2:You know that's yeah for sure and sometimes as well, you can have it where, well, we've got some budget left over, we want to to do something with it, but then you're limited to like it might be a tight budget. It depends as to what it is, and what I find is. It just depends on your circles, like your client circles, and a lot of the work I do leads to more work through either the same clients or being recommended to friends of that client you know or business partners of that client, and you end up in this kind of circle. A lot of my work's in london, even though I'm based in manchester, yeah, yeah, and I'm constantly on trains down there, which is which is good, because everyone always asks oh yeah, but are you like, are you getting? Like you know your travel and your accommodation. So I mean, obviously I wouldn't do it otherwise because that's you know, like, like the all of my pay. It's so expensive. All of my pay would just go towards the train company yeah which it shouldn't, because I'd always arrive late anyway.
Speaker 2:But I mean, it's not the train driver's fault, it's just. There's just a lot going on in this country in terms of transport. It needs to be better, but we're getting there, hopefully. I say we're getting, we're not getting the hsb. Well, that's, that's a whole. I'm not going down that road, um, although I will go down that road in a car because that seems to be the only vibe we're getting anywhere these days, and that's another thing.
Speaker 2:I film a lot of conferences and things like that, which have a sustainability angle to them, and I always feel bad because I have to drive, like I'm not using public transport. But it's just when you're freelancing, there's enough. You've got to juggle as it is. You need to be able to rely on getting to the work, otherwise you'll you know, you'll not be able to do it, not get paid. So yeah, that's, there's so much to juggle with it. But it's funny. You know the amount of times that I hear myself and other people complaining about the woes of freelancing. You know, we still, we still do it, we still try to make it work.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there is an energy to it, like, for example but then here's the caveat.
Speaker 2:So, like people say, oh yeah, but there's a lot of freedom in time and you know how you structure your week. So I worked all last week and then I had a shoot on Saturday, went it was on Coniston Water, beautiful scenery, filming some kids doing like an activity experience day, sort of thing. And then you know, we'll use that as promo for, you know, actually getting families and kids and schools to go up and do this activity thing. So yeah, that was on a Saturday and you could argue, well, I could just take Monday off then, can't I? But you don't, or at least I don't, because I'm sitting here worrying about you know, if I'm not at my desk when other people are at their desk, then they might, there might be an opportunity I might miss if I'm not. You know, quick with the emails, you know people, so you don't just take days off. I find I don't know. It's weird, like, unless you've booked a holiday and you're physically away from your office yeah, and even then I've got two phones.
Speaker 1:So I've got a personal phone and a work phone well the reason.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you the story. I was getting contacted kind of out of hours, so I'd hit a point where I was still on my phone. People contacted me on Instagram, linkedin, everything at all hours in the day, weekends, the whole lot, and I wasn't able to shut off properly to actually rest, to then make sure that I was at my best when I was at work. So, but here's, what comes in is the fear of losing out work because you've said piss off, it's my tea time, it's six o'clock, I'm not going to pick up to eight o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1:So I think it's a difficult balance and I can't tell you that there's a right and a wrong way of doing it. We got on a big holiday in a few weeks and I'm going to take my work phone with me, but it will literally be like I'll check it and I'm going to put an out of office on. People know that I'm away, but it's difficult to kind of know that you're turning away that work and also you're spending money while you're on holiday, so you're obviously losing out twice but, if you don't let go of that fear.
Speaker 1:The whole point of being freelance is that you have a work-life balance that suits you, and I think it's great to work on the weekends, but sometimes you do need to take that day off in the week just to like do life admin. I was talking to someone at work about this today. Like he said to me, bloody dentist isn't open on a Saturday. I said I've never had a Saturday appointment since I was a kid. I've always have to take like a admin day. And then I'm like right, can I get my haircut on the same day? Can I go here? Can I get a physio appointment?
Speaker 1:And just I kind of make use of that, say, monday off for sure, and then you feel like you've got loads of stuff that might creep into four days, but you've made it into one, you know.
Speaker 2:I think that's one benefit of freelance, where there's no one to answer to. In terms of that, as long as you feel you're on top of your work and your emails and stuff, that's fine. But what I didn't like about working full-time was the the kind of implied guilt. I mean I'm not saying that that was unique to where I worked, I'm not doing that, this will happen everywhere. But like having to oh, you know, I've got a dentist appointment at nine in the morning. Like is it okay if I come into work like 30 minutes later than usual and even though it should be fine and companies say, oh yeah, it's flexible, often it's not. You know, they'll still kind of eye you up or whatever. From what I've heard from people as well in like you know, more kind of corporate roles and, um, I just don't have any of that. Like, if I need to, like I had an eye test this morning, I made the time for it and I went, did it, came back.
Speaker 2:I've still delivered all the edits I needed to do today, it's fine yeah you know, yeah, although I know I know that you know, whilst we're on this podcast, I am getting whatsapp notifications and I've just silenced them. You know, just before we press record, I was like I had to just pause and just quickly reply to someone just to let them know that I'm gonna be off for like a bit, and that's one thing I don't like. I don't like how whatsapp is, like that should be for personal, but I'm ended up using it for work. It's creeping in, I, but then some of my um, kind of friends and ex-colleagues at previous roles love that whatsapp is bleeding into work and I like.
Speaker 1:Personally, I think it's quicker for reaching clients while I'm on set if, like, an art director or a client needs sign off and you can quickly shoot a picture of the, send them a picture of either your screen or whatever and, like it's a bit more instant, you can see the reddit it's a bit more instant. But again, this is why I've got personal phone, because I just thought I'm. I love the people I work with, but I don't want to talk about work at eight o'clock at night. I just I don't like my job.
Speaker 2:Is not that not?
Speaker 1:that serious, but I think it's. It's finding that balance because, also, like, I remember being in your situation when I first started out and I was like oh God, what if somebody? What if I miss a text? What if I miss a call? What if I miss a job? You do eventually relax into it, but it is hard to let go of that. That's what I'm trying to tell.
Speaker 2:You is like it's still hard to let go of it still getting there. I feel there's um, but you know it's all part of the learning and um, yeah, it is all part of the learning and just getting used to it. I'm still getting there and I think a lot of people are probably still getting used to, even if they've been doing it for 15, 20 years. You know, yeah, yeah, it's very.
Speaker 1:It's very difficult to say no to. I think we all see client texts for like work as hopeful money coming in and it's very difficult to be like, oh sorry, I'm booked for that day or oh sorry, I can't do that and you feel guilty, but actually it's. You know they'll find somebody else. Or maybe you're like number two on the list and like it's fine, you know it'll come back round. I think that's something that, like, I've relaxed into as well as work will always come back round it will.
Speaker 2:It's just it doesn't always feel it in the moment, but you are right, it's funny though. So a couple of instances where that's happened to me. I don't know what it was, but this one day in September last year it was a Thursday there was like six things going on. You know, there was someone who wanted me to film an event in London. There was a last minute thing in Portugal because someone had dropped out. I had a friend's wedding that I couldn't go to because I had the first job that I was working. And then there was another thing, and it's just what is about this one Thursday but I guess it's just, that's just coincidence, like the people that I happen to know that was how it was going, but then, equally, it can it being available can be in your favor. So there was a job that I basically there was a theater somewhere in the peaks, probably not too far from where you live. They had a lot of dress rehearsals that they wanted to film so that a promo video could be made in order to promote them for when it was opening night and the week thereafter. So this guy was supposed to be doing the filming and the editing, and they rang him up saying hi, just checking that everything's all good. You know, we'll see you in a couple of hours. And he replied saying I got my calendar wrong. I'm in Spain at the moment. I can't be there, I can't do it.
Speaker 2:The look part of that comes in because he knew me, but he only knew me. You know what? I don't ever know how I know him. I've only seen him once, this dude, but anyway he knew me Somehow. I was on his phone. I guess that's the beauty of networking, isn't it? You never know where it might end up, right? So he said, because he knew I was based in manchester, I'm only about an hour and a half from the peak district. So like, yeah, can I go? I, me and my partner were supposed to be going to play badminton, not badminton squash. We were meant to be. You know, we try and do things like that for each other on the weekend yeah, yeah and I was like, yeah, sorry, I'm gonna have to.
Speaker 2:Like this was at 3 pm, so just after 3 pm when I got the call, the rehearsal started at five and it's like, and it takes nine and a half to get there I'm like I need to go right this minute, I need to leave now, shit. So I'm yeah, fuck the squash, right, I get, I get my key, I get my flight case, I'm. I get in the car and go immediately. I get set up and I film it all. And what's really funny is I ended up being a bit cheaper and better quality for the work than the other guy because they'd used the other guy in the previous year. So when they emailed about two weeks ago to say, oh, you know, we're looking at organizing 2025, to say, oh, you know, we're looking at organizing 2025, they'd like me to do all of it, so I'll be the guy filming it, I'll be the guy editing it.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they're using the other person for anything at all, because it clearly like that was an era of you know didn't look good being on holiday when we had a date booked in and clearly I had to step up and I was. They seemed to get on with me really well, so that was a good opportunity that I kind of I don't know. I feel like I've stolen that work from him now which, uh, I feel kind of bad for, but I kind of need it because the thing is he was charging for his kit and his time, whereas I my day rate is encompassing everything yeah so I'm a little bit cheaper in that sense, but I'm happy with my rate at the moment and this company happens to be a charity, so you know they've not got as much money to play with, I guess.
Speaker 2:But yeah, funny story, like it's one of those like you make or break moments. I had to make a decision there and then like right, and if that's an instance of, I guess later in life I might be a bit like no, this is my personal time. It's a Sunday. Sunday piss off. But in this instance, especially when I'd only been freelancing for about six months, you got to do the work.
Speaker 1:You take everything. I think that's the thing is. You take everything when you first start freelancing as well, and you see what fits, see what sticks. You know you never know that's going to change and ebb and flow as your business changes and as you develop how you want to freelance and also like that, stuff happens Like I am sure that I have been recommended for a job and I've taken it and the person that's recommended me has probably never gone back in it happens.
Speaker 1:Like it's one of those things it doesn't mean to say it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 2:sometimes, you know, if it's like, you know you're like're, like, oh, I love that client, but now you don't go back, fine, but I think it's just, money comes back round it does, and I, um, it's easier to say that when you've got work and it's all going well, but then if you've got someone, like someone who's listening to this, thinking you know how I've got this problem. There's no work coming in. I'm sending a ton of emails. No one's getting back like what do I do? And it's a very individual case. But the thing is I'm kind of lucky in that I gave myself like more time whilst I was working somewhere and had a regular income. I was able they allowed me to reduce my hours, which allowed me time to build up a bit of a client base, and it's nothing like regular. You know there's no guarantee of money each month, but it's. It seems to be working for now.
Speaker 2:I've got a friend of mine who freelanced. Well, he's working for a company now, but straight after uni he went freelance and he he survived for three years before he decided you know this, this this is tough in terms of the income like I need to find a full-time job. So that's what he's doing now and that's, that's great. Um, I've been in this game for about, well, two and a half years, so I'm hoping I'm, you know, I'm hoping I can keep going, but it all depends as to what kind of work you do and your circles, and I feel like you're only there's a there's a saying of you're only as good as your last job, which is true to a point um, and I always feel like I have to just do exceptional work all the time, because you never know who might see it or recommend you or whatever it might be yeah, so, and that's an exhausting what's the word I'm looking for kind of expectation of, on yourself as well yeah, and the mindset of it, yeah, it's tiring um.
Speaker 2:But then you get moments where you realize, actually I'm, I'm doing, okay, you know like it's yeah it's tough and, um, you know, 20 pounds in the business account and it's, you know, people aren't paying you on time because or you've got to wait until the next payment run because the person that you sent the invoice to disappeared from the company and never forwarded anything. And that's not my problem. But it is my problem because I'm not getting paid and you just kind of. I think this is where I find the passion for what I do, because when I'm working on a good project and I'm in the edit or I'm filming something I do, I genuinely forget about those problems just for a moment and it feels really good.
Speaker 2:But I really want to work on my own stuff. I really want to work on more films. I mean, I know we spent earlier we chatted earlier about briefly that I'd done a documentary with a friend of mine that was really cool still looking out for the next one. But that kind of work is self-funded, it doesn't pay, unless I can find a way to, you know, do it on a commission basis. Um, so, you know, keep my head down looking out for those opportunities. But I think that'd be, that'd be something that I'd be passionate about and I guess that is the dream, but you know also those kind of dreams.
Speaker 1:They kind of sometimes that you can harbor them for a long time and then oh yeah yeah, and also something maybe just will pop up at the right moment, you know, and I think, like I'm very much a kind of person that thinks that the universe has kind of got his plan for you and it will kind of direct you where you need to go, and I think, yeah, yeah, it's true, yeah it's.
Speaker 1:You know, having these personal plans, you might be like, right, I've got this idea for this film and like, maybe you've got like two months where you're quiet so you can do it. And you can be like, right, okay, let's push this out, we can advertise it and, you know, put your all into it. And I think sometimes you need those kinds of passion projects Like the podcast. For me is my passion project and I think without it, I don't know, I'd probably be still scrolling on bloody Instagram at nine o'clock at night yeah, that's not, that's not good you know, no, no it isn't.
Speaker 1:I also think you did the right thing going back to you, kind of stepping back a little bit with your full-time job before going freelance. I think that was very sensible.
Speaker 2:I will say that thanks, because I was just very risk averse. I didn't really want to starve just because I'd seen friends go freelance and it. You know it's, it's very tough, it is really tough it, but there's no in between it's either really good or really bad and you know it's and there's no. There's no support, there's no like sick days or anything like that.
Speaker 1:You know you don't get any of that my dad has a saying for freelance. It's either all or nothing, I think, is what he used to say. But he's self-employed as well. But I think he highly discouraged me to go self-employed because he knew it was either feast or famine. That was it.
Speaker 2:Feast or famine, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's so true. Like you know, sometimes I've cried. I fully admit I have cried because I've not had enough work and you thought like fuck, what's gonna, what am I gonna do? And then all of a sudden you like wake up the next day and your phone's going crazy. It's like bloody buses.
Speaker 1:You can't tell yeah like when it's gonna arrive, but it does. Like you get used to the roller coaster ride, I think that's the best way to say it. You get used to it and then you manipulate it a little bit and you go. Well, I actually I'm gonna go and do this well, I feel like I've settled into it.
Speaker 2:I feel pretty I'm gonna go and do this. Well, I feel like I've settled into it. I feel pretty comfortable at the moment with how I'm, how things are going. Um, I don't know like I don't have any guarantee of work in three months, like I say like, but I, I kind of feel like, okay, something will just come up, won't it? Like it'll just be fine, and I really hope it will be, because obviously, you know, yeah, like it's your livelihood, and I know that January is a difficult month for those who are full time employed as well, because it feels like a very long month. You get paid at the end of it because often you've been paid early before Christmas. That's great, you know, but I don't know when I'll get paid.
Speaker 1:It's just random, I don't have like a payday oh, yeah, yeah, my other half yeah, my other half looks at my accounts. You know like I've got a um kind of accounting software thing and he's like sorry, so you're getting paid four times this week and then not for another three weeks what?
Speaker 2:how do?
Speaker 1:you manage and I'm like I don't know, I just do yeah by the seat of my pants I think.
Speaker 2:I think it takes a certain kind of personality to make it work. I don't know what it is and I, you know what I do fear, though, for myself sometimes, in that, like you were saying before, if you, what were you saying about? Like having a passion project or an idea for something and not acting on it, and if it's been like you know, months and years and it's like, oh, you know, so I'm really itching to do the next passion project, the next film. I've only got one film under my belt. I feel like christopher nolan you know he was already starting, uh, his company syncope with his wife at my stage and making, like you know, the dark knight and shit.
Speaker 2:And I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs, thinking, oh, I'm not been paid yet and I feel really bad about that. But it's a creative industry and I am a creative, but when it's really hard, forgetting about the stresses in allowing yourself to be creative, the catch 22 is that what I said before I feel the most at ease and I forget about my stresses when I'm in the moment, when I'm filming, when I'm doing something, when I'm working on something that I really care about. But yeah, so it's like a catch 22. In a way it's a funny one.
Speaker 1:And also it's so difficult not to compare yourself to other people but, like, there's people out there who first started a business at 60, first wrote their first book at 45, you know, I mean the classic one is Colonel Sanders with the KFC, isn't it?
Speaker 2:that's the main one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I know, and a lot of people, like, with the work I do, I meet a lot of people. Naturally, like there's so many names I have to try and remember. It's the hardest thing in the world. But, like several business owners and people like that, um, and a lot of them, yeah, you know, they started when they were like in their late 40s or whatever it might be. You know there's, there's, I know there's a lot of time, but I do kind of stress myself out, thinking, oh, am I doing it right? Am I on the right path? Like you know, is this the right kind of timeline? You know, yeah, but but you're right also in what you said earlier about life, just kind of.
Speaker 1:You didn't say this, but life does find a way, to quote Jurassic Park it absolutely does and you know what it will throw you some curveballs and then you go oh, I got out of that, all right, dust yourself off a bit and you're like all right, carry on. Do you know what? As well, I was saying this to somebody at work the older I get, the less I care about society's script of what I should be doing at 37, what I shouldn't be doing at 31.
Speaker 2:What I should be doing, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:No, you just got to go and do your own thing and like be yourself, and that's how you attract the clients you want to work with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just through doing it, you kind of weed out the clients that you decide I don't want to work with you anymore because you know you're not respectful, you don't pay me properly, or whatever it might be. Back to WhatsApp. You know what I really don't't like about? I think I need to get a second phone, potentially, just because, yeah, I don't want to. You know, I just want to quickly just um, send my mom a photo of what I've been up to today and then, by opening whatsapp, you see a message at 8 pm ona, friday from someone asking for a change now, because it needs to be done now, even though you'll do the change and they won't actually see it until monday morning, you know. So it can wait, can't it?
Speaker 2:yeah but it's how do you when you need the work and when money's tight, especially in the early days, you know how do you, how do you navigate that? It's very difficult, but the amount of growth that I feel I've had as a person through situations like that, you know it's like really valuable. Um, it's just how do you act on it and kind of slowly weed out those, those bad clients and I still I'm gonna hold my hands up.
Speaker 1:I still think that I've probably got clients that don't pay me on time. Well, I know I have got clients that don't pay me on time, or there's people where I go and I'm like this isn't filling me with joy. You know and you do, you still have. I still have a mortgage to pay. I've still got a dog to look after. I've still got to. You know.
Speaker 2:We need to stop the whole thing around. Oh, next payment cycle, fuck off with that.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, Fuck off with your 60 days Fuck off, yeah, no, okay.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, what was it? I think it's if it's B2B, 60 days. But, like, as an individual, you know you can't operate like that and you know what it is as well. So the reason why they do it is because they want to keep so. In my view, it's because some okay, half of it is they want to keep the money in their bank account so they can get as much interest as possible before they pay it.
Speaker 2:But you know, I'm working for a day rate here or there, like it's not going to make. I'm talking like 40 P. Just give me the. You know, just pay on time please. You know, if you want me to give the content on time, which I always do, pay me properly. I think the other thing is also for their overheads. They, you know, they've got their staff and their bills and their office friend and all the rest of it and bank account. It gives them more runway in case things go tits up.
Speaker 2:And you know business and I do feel for business owners in that sense, you know, especially when. So let's say, uh, you know they're waiting to get paid so that they can pay me and there are the contractors. So the way it's supposed to work is the contractors get paid immediately and the company takes the financial kind of hit until that cost is free. So, like, I produce a lot of content for agencies who then will sell those videos to their you know, their partners, whether it's like a food company or a fashion brand or a retail, whatever. So the way it's supposed to work is agency pays me immediately and then they send the content to the client and the client pays them. So I understand, yeah, okay, as a business, you know you're out of pocket for a little bit, but that's how it's supposed to work. That's how I mean, like, for example, um, I'm lucky enough to be able to go to a friend's wedding in a month's time and sadly, that means I can't film an event which I was, you know, which I have an agreement in place to cover.
Speaker 2:I'm doing the editing, but I can't film on the day. So I'm going to get a friend of mine that I know to cover me and do the filming, but I'll still do the editing. I'm going to pay him straight away. I mean, I won't get paid for a month or two, but I will pay him straight away because that's what's fair. He's got his bills too. Yeah, you know so you. But so many times I've had it where, oh you know, we've not been paid yet, so we'll pay you and it's not my problem. You've got your agreement with them, I've got my agreement with you and I've got agreements with people below me. So it's the whole cash flow thing and it's so tough.
Speaker 1:But I've, I've had before I've had clients say well, you should have savings no, no, that's not.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, everyone should have savings, everyone should have immaculate stocks and shares, insight, and I'll be millionaires, but we're not, so you know yeah life gets in the way my I had a leak in my roof and I'll be millionaires, but we're not.
Speaker 2:So you know, life gets in the way. I had a leak in my roof and I had to get that sorted, you know, whereas my savings you know it's been spent on a new roof. So you know what I mean. Life gets in the way. It's not as clear cut and anyone who if someone actually said that to you, that's ridiculous Can't believe it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then I think you know, know it's life does get in the way and yeah, it'd be great to save 50 of my wages that come in but I can't because life's expensive. Also, like thing I say silly, but it really did drive me nuts last week but my tire got a massive puncture and I all like I was lucky to get off the motorway, basically lucky it didn't blow up because then I have to order two new tires and it's like oh, I've just dropped 200 pound on two new tires, like great, like let me just pluck that out my back pocket, you know.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, no, for sure it's, and then you lose a day's work because you can't work on the day that your tires are getting changed. Like you know, it's lots of layers to the cash flow yeah yeah, and I think like it really gets on my goat that like companies can't pay people on time.
Speaker 1:Especially like we had some electrical work done and the electrician, he just pulled out a sum up machine I shit you not. He got his phone and he he totaled up all the invoice and then he went there, you go, and like, showed me the phone and was like oh okay, you can pay a grand now.
Speaker 2:And I was like sorry what the phone and was like oh, okay, you can pay a grand now.
Speaker 1:And I was like, sorry, what I thought I'd have 30 days to pay you a grand yeah, no, this is the thing I.
Speaker 2:I pay my invoices.
Speaker 2:Like I had a lot of print done for some roller banners for events and things like that yeah and like, yeah, you know, I get sent an invoice and I've got time to pay, it pays straight away. Like, why would I not? I want to know that the money I've got in the bank is is like safe and I can use that for my bills and food and everything else, you know. But I do one thing I do is whenever I get paid anything, I always put 20 of it in a separate savings account and that's my tax. And it doesn't. It's not always exactly 20, but I put money. It's a good round figure because it means I'm saving generally more than I need to and it's to one side. I shouldn't ever have to dip into that. That. That shouldn't. That's not my savings, that's the government's money.
Speaker 2:That's like separate, you know yeah but it's the whole cash flow thing. If you don't get paid on time, it looks quite tempting to just dip into that, but then you start creating a problem for yourself and you just can't do that. But these are the things that you need to consider. But I'm not saying don't go freelance, it's just um, it takes time to find your feet yeah, and I think it takes a bit of discipline yeah you know like financially it takes a bit of discipline.
Speaker 1:I'm probably the worst financially, like I'm covid really did me a number and I think like I've not really recovered my savings like I used to have, and like it just is because then life's got more expensive, you know yeah and there was there was no support for freelancers during the period. Yeah, terrible and then when there was support, then they taxed you on the fucking thing as well so you know.
Speaker 1:But life, you know life, and I think it's just one of those, isn't it? You can always earn more money, so, but you can't take the time back that to go to friends weddings or, you know, go and see nieces and nephews or whatever you know, you can't take that time, yeah, there's a financial hit and there's a life hit as well yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, and that's that's what freelancers supposed to be able to help you with in terms of being in control of your own time.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, no, things do get in the way and um, yeah, hopefully we'll not have another one of those for quite a long time, if either.
Speaker 1:But I, yeah, I hope not in my the rest of my career, even if I work till I'm 80 well, okay, actually all right.
Speaker 2:So I was. I wanted to bring up the? Um because we briefly touched on the film that I'd made. Um, yes, so that actually came out of covid. So it's a cycling documentary where we get four friends and they cycle basically across the uk at 220 miles in just 24 hours. Um, I was hanging out the back of a car boot, uh, for most of that time, very tired, and it was really funny because towards the end of the film and when we were near the finish line, I was in the camera car. There was like four of us packed into this little car. We had sound, we had a driver, we had me on the camera and we had like a runner and a photographer doing like extra bits and doing like you know, charging batteries and stuff, with the cigarette lighter in the car and we that amount of time with each other. We were just getting really pissed off at each other, but I guess we were just really tired.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, god I felt so glad to just get back in bed and get home, but the achievement because obviously we hadn't done the cycling, but I feel like we'd been there for the whole journey, like we'd seen, we'd been part of it. Um, so this came out of covid in the sense that rafa and the charity ambitious but autism collaborate every year to do a London to Manchester or Manchester to London race, basically, and anyone can sign up and it's to raise money for charity. It's great. But during the COVID couldn't do it, so some friends decided that they'd do their own and all they wanted me to do was film. You know, a little sweep going by, like I drive to the lake district, they ride through the lake district as part of their challenge and I just film a little bit of that, little bit of content and it just kind of oh yeah, but well, okay, now maybe I could go to, like you know, carlisle and we could start. Okay, now, maybe we'll go to the start, maybe I'll just film the whole damn thing, you know, um, and then you know, get Russell up, some friends, and uh, and then the four of us went and we filmed.
Speaker 2:Well, we, we four, filmed the four cyclists doing it and it became like a whole thing. So I say it's a feature documentary. It's only 48 minutes, which is just within what the academy defines as feature uh, which is fun, and it was a self-funded project. We made no money out of it and what I, what I, what we got out of it was a film and a. I printed a load of posters and framed them and gave them to. Like you know, the crew was like a thank you, uh, and that's that's pretty nice.
Speaker 2:We submitted it to a few festivals, didn't win much. We won a couple like online festivals, but there was no like physical trophy. But we have this framed poster with all our names and that's pretty cool and it's that kind of work that I love, even though, funnily enough, it didn't pay anything, and that's where the passion comes in. So that was three years ago, that was 2022, when we were filming that. So that was a while ago now and I feel really internally guilty is a strong word, but I do feel that for not having the next film in the pipe. But you know, amongst you know difficulties with not getting paid on time and looking for work and thinking about your bills and just being an adult adulting yeah, you kind of like forget about the passion of the creativity. It's just hard making time for that without worrying about life yeah, and I think certain things take priority no, it's true, it's true that's it like.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, adult in is not like peter pan. We can't all be like kids you know, and you have to prioritize stuff, and sometimes those kind of passion projects get put on the shelf for a little bit and that's fine, like it'll pick back up when you think, you know, maybe when your ideas are buzzing and you know, and it's just one of those. But that sounds like a really cool thing to have done actually, though it was just a good experience, honestly, and um.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned um off the podcast earlier. You went to my website, which you know, but there's a section on my website this work, there's contacts, and there's a section called out the boot. So what out the boot is is it's just a shared name, that whenever me and a friend of mine are working on a project, it's not owned by one of us, it's on my website, it's on his website. No, it's kind of like a shared joint thing. Um, and that's what ambitious 220 our film was. It was a shared thing and we wanted to have an equal kind of like you know, claim on it.
Speaker 2:Um, so we created this whole thing called out the boot, which is basically whenever I'm hanging out the back of a car boot, filming, you know, cars and bikes and that sort of thing, because we've done it a few times for different things. But, yeah, so that's what that is. It's just a way to do something as a as a joint team thing, and it's mostly for fashion projects. But we've just been so busy we've not been able to chat about the next one yeah but funnily enough.
Speaker 2:So this weekend is the bsc expo that stands for british society of cinematographers. They do an expo every year in london and it's basically a chance to kind of network and also look at a lot of really expensive toys and camera kit that I cannot afford. But that's a nice touch point for us both to meet up and chat about things and obviously there'll be lots of other people there. There's sessions and panels and it's a really, if you're into videos and filmmaking and even photography or, you know, just sound, anything on set, it's a really good thing to go to. It's uh in Battersea in London and, um, yeah, couldn't recommend that enough, but yeah, hopefully I'll be there chucking out a load of business cards. I'm trying to get ideas for the next project, um, and yeah, hopefully, because you said before you'd never know where where life leads you and even like like I was saying, with ambitious 220, the film, um, it was an accident.
Speaker 2:We didn't mean to make it, it's just. It was a cool opportunity to do something different and uh, and actually I wasn't freelancing at the time, I was still working for this. You know my previous company. So that was a good kind of transition, if you will like, a good way to kind of work on a big project. I know it wasn't paid, but that's kind of what I'm doing for clients. Now, you know, there's there's a film that I made recently about the um, the british fashion and textiles industry. You know, going from sheep and weaving and spinning all the way to Savile Row with the tailors and then going into retail. So yeah, you know, and that kind of came out of nowhere as well. So yeah, fingers crossed, there'll be some good around the corner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it, and you just, you just never know. You never know who you're going to meet, what is going to come out of anything, and actually like these kind of storytelling films that sound amazing, like this Savile Row one and the cycling one. They are all kind of like mini little bricks of your foundation to kind of get you to where you want to be, and I think, like these projects, they all sound like so interesting and like for you to be able to kind of tell the story and also hang out of a boot which sounds dangerous, but you know each time, oh, no, we have harnesses and all the rest of it.
Speaker 1:You know, at one point, whilst filming.
Speaker 2:We were on a dual carriageway and I was out of the back of the car boot, as you do, and a couple of police cars with the sirens, blues and twos went past, but they weren't doing it for us, they had doing it for us. They had a real criminal to stop. So, yeah, clearly they saw us and were like you know what, whatever you just do, you it's fine, you've got actual people to stop. But that was it was. It was a bit of a. We were quite worried because that was about 10 minutes into the 24 hour cycle challenge. It was just outside newcastle and we ended up. Well, it was because the cyclists were on a dual carriageway. You're not, they're not supposed to be on your carriageway. They took a wrong turn. So, yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2:There's lots of little moments like that and you are right, I've never thought about that. You know it builds a foundation. I think there's a quote I heard earlier this week which was never look back other than to see how far you've come. I wouldn't say that I'm ready to look back just yet, but, to be honest, that's what it's all about. I just want to be at like a retirement age and look back on my career and be like yeah, that was fun, I had a good time. That's all I want to do. That's literally it. I just want to be proud of it.
Speaker 1:You're so right. Like what we do is really quite fun.
Speaker 2:like creatives we get paid to kind of be so yeah, for sure, and I think I had a nail-biting like kind of like pinch me moment when I first had that, you know yeah, and if you told little marcus that you were hanging out the back of a car filming for cyclists from the the length of the country, he'd probably be like no, you weren't.
Speaker 2:And then you'd be like, yeah, I was I used to, um something another moment of that and I probably shouldn't mention, but when I was working for my previous company, obviously I was doing I was the only one in the company doing video production and part of that was doing a little kind of weekly vlog like we used to. You know, because it was around 2017 and vlogs were a bit more prevalent in youtube, especially the case in ice tat and all the rest of it fun for louis and um, well, the company was starting to get traction in the education space and that allowed us to go to a lot of they call them ed tech conferences and they've been a lot of them in america. So I had the chance to go to conferences in new york, new orleans, philadelphia, dallas which was a really cool experience, and I, like went to off february 2020 we were in austin, so like a month before covid and that, to be honest, yeah, you're right with code, because that's when everything changed, because the company was on a really good like up at that point. It was exciting. I was, I was still fairly well, quite young, really.
Speaker 2:It was five years ago now and yeah, just looking at the calendar, yeah it was, and that I remember feeling like cause I'd filmed a few bits of the team going to like networking drinks and that kind of thing, and we filmed a podcast out there and I was editing it the next morning over a coffee it's this Keurig they call it, it's like an American Nespresso machine and I was wearing this top hat, which was from the cupboard in the Airbnb, because this Airbnb was clearly used for, like hen do's and that sort of thing and I was editing. I was wearing this top hat because why not, whatever? So it felt silly, silly, as you say, and just editing footage from from the previous night and feeling you know what? This is really cool. I feel like a YouTuber. This is really fun.
Speaker 2:I think COVID and everything changed and uh, so on, so forth, and your life takes a different direction. But but yeah, that was exactly that kind of moment when you realize, hang on, I'm doing some kind of fun here and uh, and yeah, you know, you got to remember that and be thankful and I haven't actually thought about that for a little while.
Speaker 1:so yeah, I mean, it's like when I talk about my job, when you asked me earlier, like before you press record about my job and I'm like it's kind of silly really. I hang stuff on a hanger and I make it look pretty, or I make products look pretty like it's a silly job. Someone's got to do it, but it's quite a silly job I'm not saving, saving lives.
Speaker 2:I'm not doing heart, so I mean no one wants me to do heart or brain surgery, but you know it's still someone's got to do it for sure, and I think it's the kind of work that people just assume doesn't exist, maybe like kids growing up now because of, you know, youtube, tiktok influences all the rest of it. It's a bit more of a known. I remember watching the news when I was a kid and they were interviewing some guy who'd found a way to make money on youtube and it was like unbelievable, like that this was. This was like groundbreaking stuff.
Speaker 2:Like what you're not a lawyer, like what's wrong with you, you know yeah, but it's such a it's quite normal these days to do that as like a business case and to sell ad space to companies and promote their products. Um, I don't do any of that. I do have a youtube channel and occasionally when I've got a bit of free time, I do try to make a video about my kind of recommendations around certain techniques for filming or whatever it might be. I I did a video on how to put a teleprompter onto a gimbal, you know, so that you can have fluid motion. You know, so that you can have fluid motion.
Speaker 2:But, uh, your presenter or whoever's like on the video can be more confident and can be more eloquent in how they speak, and I just thought that's it's. It's something that I figured out how to do. I'm sure it's been done before, but it just it felt really silly, as you say, and I just thought, okay, I'll make it make, I'll do a video on that. So I did a video on it. It's not got that many views, but yeah, that's as far as I'd like to take it. I think I'm kind of past it in terms of being like you know, dreams of being a YouTuber or whatever you know.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I think. I think people have realized it's quite hard to do content creation, no matter whether it's on TikTok or Instagram or you know, people. I know now they've got like millions of followers, but I first started with them when they were styling and they were doing written blogs, and I'm talking like 2012, 2013, maybe a long, long time ago and they're now like, their contents change because it's now on Instagram, it's on TikTok, it's you know, and it's.
Speaker 1:It's a hard job. You've got to think of all the ideas, then you've got to edit it, then you've got to market's a hard job. You've got to think of all the ideas, then you've got to edit it, then you've got to market it. Well, plus, you've got to do your own accounts and all the other businessy stuff on the side, sure, but it's also you've got to put yourself out there.
Speaker 2:You've got to be on, you've got to be the face of it. And if you're quite introverted, you don't always want to do that. But some people have been able to be persistent and grow out the comfort zone. You know, uh, marquez brownlee is a big example of that. He's a tech youtuber and he recently did a video where he basically shared his first ever video and then did like a montage going through and, like you know, good for him, like really good, um, kind of self-confidence, and you can see his, him and his style growing and evolving as it goes. But what if you don't want to do that? What if you don't want to be on the front of the camera? But it feels like now, especially with LinkedIn, because that's how I do a lot of my networking. It ends up being on LinkedIn and everyone's trying to be an influencer, everyone's trying to be a thought leader, because that's how you get more people seeing that you exist.
Speaker 2:I don't often post on social media because I'm so busy producing work for clients that in my own time I don't want to be sat behind a desk thinking of ideas. And you know, I want to spend time with partner, have some food, I want to watch some films and, you know, get ideas that way. But I did a post about, oh, there's some work opportunity that I had. Um, in fact, I'll give you the quick rundown. So a my old company, a friend of mine who was working there, he started volunteering at this kind of like oh, I don't know how to describe it. It's a company which has like different city kind of reps in different cities around the world and he was like I want to be the manchester one, I want to host manchester, I want to run my own events and I'll volunteer and I'll do that and it's like a community building thing around the partnership space. Um, I know nothing about the partnership space, but I was like cool, you're, you're a friend of mine, I would like to make you look good. I want to film a little highlight video, some social content for this event that you're doing for free for the benefit of those in manchester. And he's like yeah, that sounds amazing, great, so I filmed that video. And the people who this is a big tangent, but I'll get there. The people who this is a big tangent, but I'll get there. The people who run the company in San Francisco in America, they saw that video, loved it and, you know, were really thankful, didn't have any money, but they were just like, oh yeah, this is great. I just wanted to say thank you very much and I said that's brilliant. Thank you for your feedback. Glad that you liked it.
Speaker 2:I noticed on your website website you have a flagship event which is happening in denver this year. This was a couple years ago. These are my rates, this is what it would cost. I can do this for you. I noticed you did the event only one year previous and you had no video content. I can't find anything on it. So what do you say? And they were like, yeah, we'll do it, but your pricing is very aggressive. And I said, well, okay, right, we can work on that, we can look at what we can reduce. But no, they said aggressive in terms of it's really competitive. They wanted to increase the rate because they thought, well, how am I supposed to pay for flights and hotel? Like it's not reasonable. And I think in America, the way that you know the IRS works and the way that you know the way that you know the IRS works and the way that you know rights workers' rights are different unions Generally.
Speaker 2:I think people get paid more over there and the cost of living obviously comes into effect too. So, before I knew it, I was on a plane to go to Denver and I was the sole videographer to film this three-day event Brilliant, you know, unbelievable in the Rockies, had a great time. So, yeah, that's a pretty cool story. So what I did is I wrote that up in like a bit of a LinkedIn post, just because I thought, well, it's something cool that happened, it's something fun to share, whatever I'll just you know, and work was quite quiet during this time, so I thought I'd just write that. And a friend of mine from uni who I'd not seen for about 10 years, based down in Brighton, saw that LinkedIn post, could see that I was still based in Manchester because I'd mentioned that I'd done a video in Manchester and obviously, oh well, marcus seems to be doing all right, he's going to America. That's pretty cool. Uh, they had a shoot in Manchester that they wanted a camera assistant for, um, and they said you know, are you up for it? And that's so. That's another job that I got out of, just doing a LinkedIn post.
Speaker 2:So, even though I don't like the idea of being like an influencer and spending all my time writing posts and making content and all the rest of it for myself. I can see the value in it, like it reminds people that you exist and push with the top of the feed so that if there's an opportunity I mean most jobs aren't advertised. If recruiters and if people in a company know someone, then, or someone internal, they'll go, so it. If recruiters and if people in a company know someone, then or someone internal, they'll go. So it's just making yourself be known.
Speaker 2:So, as annoying as it is, it's kind of the way it's going. You know, you've got to have a bit of a presence. It's like you with your podcast. This is a great way for you to, you know, show off all the skills that you have and talk about that, but also offer that to people like me and have me as a guest and allow me to chat about what I do. So basically, yeah, thank you. This is a really good. It's a really good opportunity for that and, uh, you know, yeah with regards all that I'm saying, so yeah, I think as well.
Speaker 1:You're right about social media, so I started to schedule stuff out. This time last year beginning of last year, I think I tried to do three posts a week on Instagram and LinkedIn. Now I can't always post what I'm working on because I have NDAs or products not out yet, or like they're gold seal samples and maybe they have to be edited, or like a different label has to be dropped on whatever, so I struggled to keep up with that. However, on LinkedIn, what I've been trying to do similarly to you is just kind of go with stories Like I put up that I bust my tire. The other week, I put up that I'd like got stuck in a bog or in the peak district with my friend the other. She just was pissing herself, laughing, and took a picture of me in this bog. Great marketing, though, because then people are like how this is so funny, like you know that's perfect vulnerability.
Speaker 2:Can can work.
Speaker 1:Everyone's been in that kind of situation, right so yeah, and I think, do you know what it shows? Like we were saying earlier, it shows your personality. And then people go oh, she sounds like she doesn't take life too seriously.
Speaker 2:Cool, let's have her in, or well, yeah because you want to work with people that you're going to get along with. Yeah, because then you'll produce better stuff. That's yeah yeah, logical, right. You don't want to be going in there like, oh yeah, I've got my suit and I'm very kind of stiff and, yeah, you know, I'm not letting you know anything about my personal life, you know. No, no, people want to work with people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially in creative industries yeah, and I think this is where I was going wrong initially was I was just using LinkedIn to go I'm available on the 5th, 6th and book me, hey, and that was it, rather than putting my personality. So I think it definitely helps to post stuff, but like I sit on a, if my ever half's working on the weekend, I'll sit on a Sunday and I'll schedule stuff out, and I'm no shame in saying that I schedule stuff out, because then I can just quickly go on when it's scheduled, see if there's any comments, reply to comments. It makes my life a bit quicker, a bit easier. But I do think linkedin's like a it's becoming a bit better. It used to be really minging, it used to be that's the best word for it, because it used to just be like ceos, white collar ceos, just kind of uh, that's the best word for it, but yeah, they.
Speaker 1:It's much better now and like there's a lot of people like the dead pixel crew are on there quite a lot. They're posting quite a lot there's yeah, the studios. They're so good. There's other studios posting. There's like people are using it as a platform to engage and to chat to each other and to share as well to share.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but not in a boat. I don't find it in a boastful way. I think people are doing it in a. Hey, this is I've done this and this looks really. This is how I've shot it or this is how I've, like, come up with this idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's lots of advice as well and helping people um yeah yeah, I think the linkedin that you were describing earlier, the old style um. So in australia you've got the um, the adelaide fringe festival. It's kind of like what we got in edinburgh, the uk, and there's, there's an act on there. You, you need to go on YouTube and search this. It's called Wankonomics and it's basically that. I only found out about it yesterday.
Speaker 2:But go on there, have a look, and it's basically like old white collar CEO LinkedIn post slash, like work emails, and it's like, oh, you know what I can't give an example off the top of my head but like, oh, you know what? I can't give an example off the top of my head but like, oh, don't, don't say this, say that, you know. So don't say, oh, I had um, I don't have a fucking clue what like the numbers are and I don't know how much that's going to cost. Like, I don't know how you're supposed to do that. Just say, oh, we're having it, we need to open a new dialogue and we need to, you know, discuss the financials around this. I don't have the numbers in, but you know, it's just like a different way of wording things. Just have a look. It's quite funny. I had a run in with, like someone from accounts, and then it's just like how do you kind of like rephrase that to be a bit?
Speaker 1:you know it's funny stuff, but yeah, no, linkedin's not like that anymore, which is good, no no, I definitely think it's much better and I think people are finding more work through it and you know there's lots of. I think it's a more. It's much more useful to us creative freelancers than what it used to be, way more useful. But, like I say, you can put a bit of personality. Like someone at work today said oh, I saw your post about last weekend, I don't know. I tripped up the stairs, got stuck in a bog.
Speaker 1:There was something else that happened and I just like wrote it all down and then put this picture that my friend took of me literally in the fucking bog and um, not in a toilet in like a outside PE bog and the guy was like this is hilarious. And I'm like, yeah, it has nothing to do with work, but like it still impacted my week. Because then I was like well, I'm like covered in, like crap. You know you've got to sort everything else out. And then like X, y, z happened and yeah, just, it's life, isn't it?
Speaker 1:And I think if you're just being very robotic, especially on social media, if you're just being very robotic, I think people are like who is this person? Why would we book them? Cause there's no personality coming through. There's no, we can't see if they're actually going to gel with the people we've already got in the studio, or you know. I think makes sense. I mean, I'm not advocating that we all tell everybody that we got stuck in a bog or like well, maybe that's it maybe you can't say you got stuck in a bog.
Speaker 2:Just say, oh look, we had a misalignment. We need to say you know we work on the vertical model and we'll speak with accounts to see if we can you know so, rather than getting like unstuck yeah, I don't know, it's just that, that's basically. Yeah, so I don't. I'd love to go and actually see the show, if ever they come to the uk. But yeah, wankonomics, it's so good that's basically what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that'd be so good. So what are your goals for this year in your business?
Speaker 2:Survive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's no goals in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, to be honest, I think. I think yeah, it's to. You know, cause we things get more expensive all the time, and I have got my personal goals. You know, I want to have another kind of passion project in the pipe and I have got my personal goals. You know, I want to have another kind of passion project in the pipe. I want to do things and there's a lot of kit I need to buy, I need to upgrade my kind of storage and backup solution. That costs money. So you know there's a lot of cost and I just want to, yeah, and find more projects that I really can get my teeth stuck into and and love working on, but that I can still be paid fairly for and and on time. I think yeah, and, to be honest, no, all of that waffle survive. I just want to survive, but I think that's what all of us are trying to do, right, and in between, just have a bit of fun as well. Um, I do.
Speaker 2:I do have um ambitions to maybe start, like you know, because, from freelancing as a videographer and like a filmmaker where do you go from there? And the very natural next step is to start a production company, and I've seen the journeys of. You know you mentioned Dead Pixel and other companies you know what Media in Manchester and then this Rogue Films down in London and Foster Studios in Preston. So I've followed a lot of these companies for a long time and I've seen them where their founders have gone from just being freelancers like me to then starting a company, and it's a big.
Speaker 2:It's a big challenge, especially when you know we complain about having no sick days. Well, when you're the boss, you don't get any sick days either. You know you've got to pay for other people's sick days and there's a lot more responsibility. But for some reason it doesn't really scare me too much and I do. I'm not ready yet but you know I'm trying to figure things out, trying to see if there's a niche. Maybe I can because I do a bit of everything at the moment, but I know you've kind of gone down a bit of a niche with what you do with you know you stylists.
Speaker 2:So obviously I'm still in my infancy, but I I think the goal is to survive and also figure it out yeah, and I think that, like I was saying to you earlier, it changes and it evolves and it ebbs and it flows and it might be that that goal ebbs and flows into something different, or it might be like it comes quicker than what you're thinking and like neither's right or wrong yeah, no, no, it's true, and yeah, and like I said earlier, you know, to retire and just be like, yeah, look back and yeah, that was, that was fun, I had a good time. I think that's the, that's everyone's goal, right yeah, if I can just keep that and run through then, then that'll be, I'll have a good time so I've got one last question for you.
Speaker 1:You vaguely know what's coming. Answer it in whichever way you see fit. What inspires you, marcus?
Speaker 2:what inspires me? Um, you know I've always got like a bit of a canned response for this, just because going on a tangent, now you have to. When you're freelancing, you're constantly asking yourself why am I doing this? This is fucked Like, it doesn't work. You know I'm dipping into my savings all the time or I'm working for this. You know this client's being a bit of a nuisance, or they're just not communicating or, like you know, know you turn up to a shoot and you've got to figure everything out why you're doing it.
Speaker 2:I think the reason why and I think it's because, how can I put it? It's just like I think, to create something that can help or motivate or inspire someone else. That's, you know you're creating, you're building some kind of legacy or you're giving back in some way. A I love the stuff I work on, charity projects that don't actually pay at all, but it helps keep me in practice and helps my skills and grow and develop and also it gives back and it feels really good.
Speaker 2:I think what inspires me is often the work of others and I look at the work and what people are doing and what they're going through. I've got a friend of mine who owns an AV company, audiovisual, and yeah, his 2025 is on a really weird trajectory. A lot of the people that work for him are having tough times, some are having to move or leave or whatever, but he's still got to deliver. And stories like that are really inspirational, because if they can deal with that, then surely whatever comes my way, I can deal, deal with too, but maybe I could figure out a way to help them at the same time. So, yeah, I think it's just see I'm rambling now. This is it. This is this is why I'm doing more podcasts, this is the reason, this is why we're here.
Speaker 2:I love a good tangent, though, so yeah, it's, it's just just do good, be good, that's kind of that. That's what it's all about, and to help those that are around, just making things better, you know. But I think what I will say is, like, when I'm in an edit for something that I've made I had it with the cycling film and I'm currently having it with this film for Cyclist Fighting Cancer, which is the next one Like I can see the difference that it'll make, because they don't have much money but this video, if it gets seen by the right people, will bring them more money and it'll allow them to give more bikes to kids that need it. And that's really nice and I'm a part of that.
Speaker 2:In this film I interviewed an older man who'd, you know, been a cancer patient years ago and, due to the cancer there was, his bones were a lot more brittle than they used to be, like now they're a lot, so if he fell off a bike it'd be very bad for him. So he can't ride bikes, so he's given up his passion to ride bikes, but he's donated that bike to cyclists fighting cancer. They will sell that bike. That will raise money and that money will be used to buy brand new bikes for children and young people living with cancer, and that I kind of teared up a little bit. When you know, when he said that I didn't tear up when I filmed it, but in the edit a couple days ago I was, like you know, with the right music underneath that, I was like, oh god, wow, that's, it's just really nice, you know, and good for him. So that that's what inspires me. That's an example and a very long answer. I'm very sorry, but yeah, it's just nice.
Speaker 1:It's nice that you're using your creativity to help others and it's also got a bit of an emotion attached to it for you as well, and I think it's nice. It's nice that you're able, at the beginning of your business, to be able to schedule in time to help these charities out, because I think it you can get all consumed with your business and it's just so lovely that you're wanting to help other businesses and charities out like that, so I think it's a really great thing well, because you know when the when it's quiet, work-wise, I mean you need to do something right and, um, when there's an opportunity to do something good and helpful, it feels better than just doing it to get paid.
Speaker 2:You know you can put some passion into it. And also, because they're not paying you, they, they, they put a lot of trust in you because they want to I mean, I'm talking about this specific charity, but others as well. Like, there's only so much they can ask of you. So you get a lot of creative freedom to really tell it in your way. Obviously, like you know, you've got to work with them and collaborate and, you know, take in feedback and listen to ideas, but you're giving a lot of autonomy to to do it in your way and, and that's really empowering as well, like I, I can really use my knowledge and skills and and care and heart to really help in in my way. Even though it might not be for physical money, it might be for, in my case, video, someone else it. Well, it could be something else. You know, for that older man it was to give a bike which could then be sold to raise money. So, yeah, you know it's, it's that kind of thing that's so lovely.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. I've really enjoyed listening to your journey so far, because it's been wild.
Speaker 2:You've certainly had enough time to listen to it. I've definitely rambled on longer than I should have done, but I appreciate the opportunity to come on and just chat. And, again, like I said earlier, you do get in your own head as a freelancer at times and I think it's really important not only to listen to these conversations but be part of them as well. So, yeah, thank you for facilitating it and for, yeah, the opportunity. It's been really fun. I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:You're more than welcome.
